The Knox District Scout Association has been left disheartened as tensions over their longstanding tradition of sleepovers in Knox scout halls were brought to the fore during a Knox Council meeting on Monday night, 23 June.
The issue, raised during public question time, centres around council’s interpretation of building codes, which now prevent overnight stays and concerns about a proposed rent increase scouts say could threaten their ability to operate.
Nine-year-old Ruby from Fourth Knox Scout Group was the first to step up to the microphone, her voice trembled with emotion as she explained what overnight activities meant to her and her friends.
“My friends and I are very sad that the council is stopping overnight activities in our scout halls,” she said.
“My favourite part of scouting is overnight activities. I get to spend longer time with my friends. Have more opportunities to do fun activities that we can’t do on our normal nights.”
“The first night I ever spent away from my family was in our scout hall. Being at the scout hall made it easier for me…I knew where everything was, like the bathrooms – I was comfortable being there.”
Ruby said overnight experiences like this gave her confidence to go on bigger adventures, such as the upcoming five-day Cuboree.
Knox Council Mayor, Lisa Cooper responded to Ruby’s question, clarifying council’s position.
“Council has longstanding partnerships with the Scouts and other community organisations in Knox, who we value enormously,” she said.
“Their existing lease, in place since 2021, doesn’t allow for overnight activities because the building classification of the Scout halls, under the Victorian Building Act 1993, does not allow for that purpose.”
“Council has proposed that scouts can apply for a Temporary Occupancy Permit (through a building surveyor) or upgrade their facilities and undertake a building classification change, so overnight activities could occur anytime.”
Cr Cooper said it’s really important for everyone to be safe.
“The specific arrangements for a new lease between the Scouts and Council, including the annual rental amount, remain in negotiation and will be presented for Council consideration at a later time, when all key conditions and associated fees will be confirmed. There has been no Council decision yet made on this new lease,” she said.
But scout leaders said the approach is out of step with decades of safe, community-led practice, and that the changes come with emotional and financial consequences for hundreds of families across Knox.
Karin Orpen, who has chaired the Knox District Scout Association for 28 years, said the restrictions and proposed rent hike have been deeply disappointing.
“We let [Council] know firsthand, from some of our leaders, how imperative this activity is because it builds resilience in these young people, and often that’s their first experience away from home,” Ms Orpen said.
“And we feel that there’s a misconception of perhaps council’s understanding of how it’s actually run. We have two leaders who are awake at all times. There’s a lot of checks that have to go on before the activity can even be held. As for sleeping, the leaders will say there’s not much sleep in there, they watch movies, they do all sorts of fun things.”
Ms Orpen pointed to post-COVID changes to the Victorian Building Act and said the rule was never meant to apply to scout halls.
“Our understanding is that this rule now was never meant to be applied to scout halls, which are very well supervised. So that’s something that will be pursued and may need to be addressed with the Victorian Government.”
She also questioned the fairness of a proposed hike in scouts’ peppercorn rent, which she said fails to reflect Scouts’ long history in Knox and its self-funded, volunteer-driven model.
“This is an organisation that’s been in Knox for over 80 years. Every Scout hall – they built themselves. Council does no maintenance. We get no support from Council. We lease the dirt that their halls sit on,” she said.
“For other community groups to be charged the same amount, using council buildings and having all their maintenance done for them, to put us on par with that, with no maintenance and no support – is huge. It’s impossible.”
District Commissioner of Knox Scouts, Alan Richmond said the policy was not only impractical but unfairly targeted an activity crucial to youth development.
“I’ve told my leaders not to stop,” Mr Richmond said.
“It’s part of the award scheme for kids from five years old to 26 – that they are able to be resilient and able to get outside by themselves. At five years old, when we do sleepovers, it’s a young person’s first time outside of being asleep at home with mum and dad. They want to be in a safe place and the safe place is with their leaders and their other members of their Joey mob.”
Mr Richmond said some families were already struggling to afford basic activities, and that a rent hike or permit fees for sleepovers would only make things harder.
“Some groups could take two or three weeks, or two or three months to save up the money to do something like go to the museum and that’s like $20 or something,” he said.
“If we’re starting to talk about paying $400 a year to rent a piece of dirt – knowing that these are our halls that we build and we own, it’s a bit hard to take. To me, the biggest issue is supposedly not being able to use our own halls for the kids to sleep in.”
Mr Richmond said Council had told scouts they could apply for a temporary permit – but at a steep price.
“They said, ‘Oh yeah, you can have a sleepover, but you need a permit from us each time you do it, and it’s going to cost you over $1000 each time.’ Now it can’t be that unsafe if they’re willing to break the rules as long as we give them extra money. That seems particularly cruel,” he said.
He stressed that leaders put safety first – and always have.
“I’ve been a leader for 40 years, and all of our leaders treat our young people like their own kids. None of us are ever going to put these young people at risk,” Mr Richmond said.
“The duty of care that we have over these kids is just tremendous. Our alternative is we can’t sleep in the hall – we sleep outside the hall. But that’s awful around Knox, because most of the halls don’t have fences around them, and you get all sorts of people wandering around in the middle of the night.”
For now, scouts leaders and families are urging Council to reconsider.
“We’re trying to keep the kids safe, and we’re trying to let the kids grow – and they do when they’re safe,” Mr Richmond said.
“And this is just not being safe.”
